Man under the floorboards. West Street, Ince 1982

Hi all I'm hoping someone can help me locate the house in 'West Street, Higher Ince' where Norman Green famously hid under the floorboards of his living room between 1974 and 1982 in a bid to evade the police after being implicated in an alleged offence at the home of an 86-year-old woman.

For those of you not familiar with the story here is a link to a Wigan Today article recalling the story https://www.wigantoday.net/news/people/the-police-fugitive-who-lived-under-the-floorboards-of-his-wigan-home-for-nearly-eight-years-3964492

To cut a long story short Norman aided by his wife Pauline who supplied him with food and drink managed to live undetected in a coffin sized hole under the floorboards of his living room in West Street, Higher Ince for almost 8 years until the police eventually caught up with him after a tip off from a neighbour.
The story hit the national newspapers in July 1982 and although no charges where brought against either Norman Green or his wife for lying to the police regarding his whereabouts the family left West Street shortly after to presumably get away from the unwanted attention the story had brought them.

Despite keeping a 'low profile' (boom, boom ,tish! ) for 40 years I've managed to trace the family to another part of Wigan where according to public records Norman who is now in his 80's and Pauline who is now in her 70's are both still alive and living together. However for privacy reasons I will neither disclose their whereabouts or contact them as I'm sure they would rather be left alone.

However I am curious if anyone knows the actual house in West Street that the Greens used to live in where this happened?
Over to you folks....

Hopefully that there will be someone here who can assist you MR H.

Sorry, I don’t know, Mr H, except it was “the house on the corner” according to this: Wiganworld Thread, if that helps at all.

There is mention of it here Mr H

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=5&id=17632&gallery=Rose+Bridge&offset=0

Hi Lolly and jo anne, and thanks for the replies.

I have seen the thread on WW that mentions 'the house on the corner' and from this vague description my gut instinct is that the house was either number '55' or '57' which are the two ajoining semi detached houses on the inside of a sharp right angled bend on West Street.

I had considered bumping the thread over there to confirm this but it seems that the two posters who are in the know as to which house it was ('pumpkineater' and 'zoe24') have ceased posting on the forum over 10 years ago!

I was hoping they may have migrated over here as I know a number of the members on here are either members or ex members of WW.

Anyway Lolly as you say hopefully someone on here will be able to help and if not then there's always old fashioned legwork.  
I'm just trying to save myself a trip down to Wigan Library or The History Shop if I'm being honest.

This story has always fascinated me as at the time that all this was going on my grandparents lived in Pennington Lane facing Sutcliffes tripe works and it just blows my mind to think that whilst I was happily playing in their garden as a kid in the next but one street to theirs this really bizarre story was happening.

I live in West Street and according to my neighbour who lived in West Street for Donkey's Years... it is this house in the centre of the picture...

Cheers and many thanks for the reply and screenshot Cadfael, you've saved me a trip in to Wigan.

So if if I'm looking at the photo correct that would make the Greens former home number 55 then according to your neighbour?

Fun fact this story inspired the punk rock band 'The Damned' to write the rather aptly titled song 'Under the floor again' which is worth a listen for the lyrics alone if you are familiar with the details of the story.

I am assuming it was 55, this was an 'over the garden wall' conversation about 15 years ago. I did already know about the story, but had no idea it was West Street.

I'd say that it was number 55 Cadfael, if your neighbour is correct judging from this photograph that was taken of the Greens living room shortly after Norman Green came out of hiding and shows the fireplace on the left hand side of the room whereas if this was number 57 the fireplace would have been on the right.


However this photograph of the Greens (which seems very awkward) supposedly stood on the doorstep of their home in West Street in 1982 matches neither property and was more than likely taken somewhere else.

UPDATE:

Looks like I'll be making that trip to Wigan Library/The History Shop after all folks!  
As after doing further online research on the story something now dosen't add up regarding one of the claims Norman Green is quoted to have made to newspaper reporters.

According to the article in the link below by Wigan Today, Norman Green is quoted to have said "it was also terrible lying there (under the floorboards) listening to his six children playing just inches above him"
and that "He began to see the children again, but they were always out of the room when he came out from under the floorboards so they never knew where he was hiding."

https://www.wigantoday.net/news/people/the-police-fugitive-who-lived-under-the-floorboards-of-his-wigan-home-for-nearly-eight-years-3964492

However a search of an online Births, Marriages and Deaths resource reveals that five of the Greens six children were born AFTER 1982 with the first of these being born in 1983 when Norman Green was out of hiding, and that at the time of his self imposed incarceration he only had one child which was born in June of 1975 six months after he began hiding from the police in December of 1974.

So assuming that there aren't two Green families both living in Wigan and sharing exactly the same details regards number of children etc. (unlikely) then either the newspapers have got this part of the story wrong/made it up or Green himself has lied to them....

Was hoping to do a quick YT video on this for my channel but instead it's turned out to be a reet mystery!

I was working in the charge office in Wigan nic when they brought him in , can't help with addresses , TheIince boys picked him up . Whilst he was "missing" , I think I'm right in saying his wife had a nipper, so he didn't stay under the floor all the time .!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree... maybe when the kid was in bed he came out to watch TV and give the wife a kiss.

After even more research it would appear that the newspapers/Norman Green were indeed correct in reporting that the Greens had six children during his period of hiding as it turns out that they have 11 children in total!

Five of them were born before he went into hiding, one whilst he was in hiding and the other five after he came out of hiding.
It turns out the reason my online search didn't show the five children before he went into hiding was I simply hadn't gone back far enough with my search or expected them to have so many kids!  

So mystery solved!

But it seems that the newspapers at the time chose not to report or Norman Green omitted the fact that when he went into hiding his wife had been two to three months pregnant with their sixth child and that she would have had to go through the birth of their sixth child without his support whilst still having to look after their other five children, plus the now additional burden of looking after her husband hiding from the police.
This was probably done to play on the human angle of the story and paint Norman Green in a better light with the readers especially given the nature of the offence that he was originally arrested for before going into hiding.

On a lighter note to answer Nordic and Cadfael's observations his sixth child was born in June 1975 six months after he first went into hiding and his seventh was born in June 1983, over twelve months after he was eventually discovered by the police.
Given that the Greens were producing a child near enough every other year from 1966 until he went into hiding and then one every year from 1983 it would seem that Norman Green did indeed manage to resist temptation during his time living underneath their living room floor!

Will probably try and book an appointment down at Wigan Library/The History Shop when I've some free time and view the microfilms of the local newspapers from 1982 as they may confirm the actual house number.

Many thanks to all those who have replied in this thread.

Cant wait to see your youtube offering on this. Please do keep us informed

Lolly wrote:Cant wait to see your youtube offering on this.  Please do keep us  informed

Will do Lolly, but would like to view any original newspaper articles from 1982 down at Wigan Library/The History Shop if they have them first and get as much info on the story as I can before making a video.

Of course it would be even better to get Norman Green or his wife Pauline's side of the story all these years later and although I've managed to trace where in Wigan they now live, the fact that he and his family have over the years ignored several pleas from others recalling the story for him to come forward or reveal his whereabouts leans towards him and his family wanting to remain anonymous so I'll leave them be and just stick with what is already out there in the public domain.

Well after a trip to the 'Museum of Wigan Life' (formerly 'The History Shop') on Library Street and some help from the fantastic staff there I've been able to identify the house in West Street that was once home to Norman Green and his family at the time he famously hid from the police underneath the floorboards of his living room floor for almost eight years.

Below is the picture originally posted by Cadfael who's neighbour identified the Greens former home as being one of the two semi detached houses in the centre of the picture and described in a thread on WiganWorld as being 'the house on the corner'.


However old electoral records for 1974 identify the house that the Greens lived in on West Street as being number '55' which is the house just to the right of the two semi detached houses originally thought to have been the Greens former home.
Old electoral records also confirm that the Greens left West Street between 1985 and 1986 as they list another family living there afterwards.

Interestingly the electoral records for 1975 to 1981 only show Pauline Green as living at the address which shows how they literally thought of everything by removing Norman Greens name from the electoral register to give the impression that he had left his wife, abandoned his children and disappeared.

For anyone interested in the story the Museum of Wigan Life have a scrapbook titled 'Norman Green The Mole' which is the nickname the newspapers gave him when the story broke in 1982 and is well worth requesting to see as it is chock full of original newspaper clippings along with the dates and which newspaper the clipping appeared in.

I've no idea who compiled it or why and although it does look homemade they have done a fantastic job as it's a treasure trove for anyone interested in the story as some details have either been forgotten or changed over the years when this story pops up every now and again in the local press.